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難民女醫生辛西雅與梅道診所
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英國國家廣播公司(BBC) 2004年與辛西雅醫師的訪談實錄(2)

辛: 這些人實際上是醫療工作者,而不是醫生。他們都在診所接受過長期的醫療訓練,或由國際非政府組織給與關於醫療專業知識的訓練。這些人來自緬甸各個不同的少數民族,在兩到三年的受訓之後,他們也想回到緬甸去幫助那些長期在緬甸境內流離失所的人民。這些人帶回到緬甸的,不只是醫療物資而已,他們也辦學、辦教育、舉行村民健康教育知識的訓練,同時培育當地村民成為社區健康醫療志工,試圖將社區人民的力量集中起來。 Dr. Cynthia: They are health workers who have been trained at the clinic or trained by international NGO’s on the border. So they come from different ethnic regions and after they learned for 2 – 3 years, they decide to go back and work with the Internally Displaced People. So they provide basic clinical service as well as education, health education or training for the community health volunteers or working with community midwifes. 記: 我們都知道很多人因為你所做的事情,而將你與德雷沙修女相比較。我這裡有一段來自緬甸軍政權對你所做的描述,他們說你是一個逃亡者、暴動份子,與走私毒品的恐怖分子。他們一直強調,任何嘗試要掩蓋這樣事實的舉動,都像是拿著羊皮,要遮掩自己槍殺的大象一般的欲蓋彌彰。你對於緬甸軍政權這樣的描述有什麼感覺? Speaker: Now although some people have compared you with mother Teresa, as you’ve said, but let me read a quick note from the Burmese government. This is their version. They say that you are an absconder, an insurgent, an opium smuggling terrorist. And they’ve said, and I quote again, any attempt to deny this is as futile as covering the rotting carcass of an elephant with a goat hide. How do you feel about that description of you by the Burmese military government? 辛: 只要軍政權不喜歡某人,我們就可以聽到如同這樣描述性的言論。他們永遠不接受任何不支持他們政權的人,甚至是我們的醫療工作者,也因此被逮捕,受到殘酷的拷問。但這樣的行為也使人民更為失望,激起持續不斷的反抗。 Dr. Cynthia: I think we always hear this whenever they don’t like someone. They are never happy with the people who are not supporting their rules. Even some of our health workers, somewhere arrested and tortured. So this is they way to try to make people depressed and to oppress them. 記: 距估計,現在約有兩百萬的緬甸人滯留在泰緬邊境。他們都沒有身分證件,也就是說這些人都是非法的移民,而你也是處於同樣的情況。現在泰國政府與緬甸軍政權的關係有越來越好的趨勢,面對這兩政府間的頻繁往來,是否讓滯留在泰國境內的你,感受到壓力,感覺不受到泰國政府的歡迎呢? Speaker: I want to ask you about your situation in Thailand. Its estimated that there are as many as 2 millions Burmese people who don’t have papers, aren’t officially there, illegally, and you are in that position. Given the relations between Thailand and Burma are getting better and better at the government level, do you feel at times squeezed, do you feel at times that you are unwelcome, you made to feel unwelcome by the Thai government. 辛: 由於越來越多的緬甸人逃離緬甸至鄰近國家,關於這些人的合法身分問題,需要更多人迫切的關心了。 每天我們在診所看到一批一批的新生兒誕生,但是他們卻無法得到任何的身分證明,這代表著,這些新生兒都成了沒有國籍的人。這樣的情況,對下一代將造成極嚴重的後果,美索緬甸社區的人們也都希望找出可行的解決方案,試著將這樣的情況訴諸國際社會,也同時向當地泰國社群反應,希望能引起大家的重視。 Dr. Cynthia: ah, if we talk about the legal and the registration issue, it’s a very serious situation right now, because more and more Burmese people leave from Burma, even the situation in Thailand is not well. More people come out from Burma and every day we see children born without registration and without official documents. So people become stateless and this has very serious consequences for next generation. So the Burmese community in Mae Sot tries to find a better solution, to get more recognition from international community as well as from the local Thai community. 記: 你曾經害怕過有一天泰國政府真的將你遣返回到緬甸,送回那個視你為恐怖、叛亂份子的軍政權手裡嗎? Speaker: But do you ever feel frightened, do ever feel that the Thai government might actually throw you out, perhaps might send you back to Burma where, as we’ve said, you are regarded as a terrorist. 辛: 在這裡的每一個緬甸人,每天都承受著可能隨時被驅逐出境的恐懼。但是我們也一直嘗試找出,除了這個結果之外更好的解決途徑。 Dr. Cynthia: Everybody is under oppression or afraid of arresting and deportation, but people are struggling to find a better solution. 記: 如同之前提過的,你的名字現在在很多緬甸人的心中是崇敬的。那也意味著,他們認為你就是一個具備著聖人品格的人,也應該接受世人的景仰。這對你自己而言,對於辛西雅成為聖人的代名詞,你是如何感覺?會覺得很奇怪嗎? Speaker: As we mentioned, your name is often revered by certainly Burmese people, something that you should become a saint, you should receive a sainthood. How strange is it for you to think of you as Saint Cynthia? Is it odd? 辛: 我從來不覺得自己是聖人,或著具備這樣的性格。或許只因為我的工作,而使人覺得應該具備神聖的光環。我在這裡工作越久,就越清楚知道這裡事務的運作,更了解孩童、婦女,和老年人的真正需求。當參與緬甸健康問題和醫療體系的會議時,這樣的實際討論往往會傳播的更快,不僅是在地區,也往往會在國際間引起一些關注的聲音。 而這樣的結果,也同時強化了大家的信心,組織更為綿密的社區網絡,深植當地社群的串聯,多方嘗試與國際社群的連結。我就跟大家一樣的盡力在支持與協助,因為這是我們選擇的方式,也是我們選擇的職責。我們都會因此而繼續堅持下去。 Dr. Cynthia: Oh. I don’t think like that, because chose this job. So the more I stay here I learn about the children, women and elderly people, as well as the system. Whenever we attend a conference about Burma health problems and Burma system becomes an issue for the international and regional area. So this encourages as to strengthen our network with our local colleagues and also international groups. So with the help and support from people I think we can continue. Because this is the way what we chose. This is the job what we want. 記: 就我所知,1988年時那些順利取得政治僻護,逃往美國或歐洲的緬甸難民,現在很多都擁有寬裕的生活。當時你為何選擇不跟這些人一樣,選擇繼續留在這個地方,做這樣的工作,而你也明白實際上這個國家對你的態度是不友善的呢? Speaker: But Dr. Cynthia, I know many Burmese people who fled in 1988 and went on to very comfortable and wealthy existences in America, in Europe. Why did you choose not to do that but to stay in this country where you are really not very welcome and work in the way that you do? 辛: 擁有可以到歐美國家這樣的機會,畢竟是少數人。還有數以千計的人們,只能在緬甸境內流竄。這些人需要有人來協助他們,一起發展大家的力量,更要去教育我們的下一代。因為年輕的一代就是我們緬甸的新希望。 Dr. Cynthia: A few people have this opportunity, but there are still thousands of people staying in Burma who can not have this opportunity. So we have to encourage and empower them and than to save our generation for our country. 記: 現在你與你先生和兩個小孩、一個你領養的孩子,同住在美索,他們知道緬甸的狀況嗎?他們對於緬甸的未來有什麼樣的想像? Speaker: Now. You are living with your husband. You’ve got 3 children, 2 of your own and one that you’ve adopted. Do they know anything about Burma? Do they have a future in Burma? 辛: 我先生在1989年的時候跟我一起工作過,他自己也是在那時候逃到泰國邊境。之後我們又再遇見,然後結婚。對於那時整個情勢轉變過程,他也是都參與其中的。我的孩子們,則是因為從小就在緬甸社區長大, 也有泰國朋友,他們很清楚泰國人與緬甸人的不同;也從學校來自緬甸的孩子們身上,知道了 緬甸的生活情況等等。我想因為常常接觸,所以他們都知道的。 Dr. Cynthia: Yes. Because since 1989 my husband and we work together. So we know everything. So even himself he fled to the border during that period, so we met in Mae Sot and married here. So he knows about the situation. And then my children also learn about the situation because the are growing up in the Burmese community and at the same time we had some Thai friends. So they know what is the difference between Burmese and Thai people. And in their school they meet with many Burmese children and then children are talking about their lives and their parents, the situation, and so they all know already about the situation in Burma. 記: 當你想到緬甸現在的政治情況,在十幾年後依舊如此,而緬甸的醫療系統可能更為凋零不堪。你的感覺是什麼呢? Speaker: And today, when you think about the political situation in Burma, when you think about the medical system which is so run down. What are your feelings? 辛: 軍政權迫害民眾的行為還是一樣的,也沒有發展緬甸落後的經濟。對於緬甸境內多個少數族群的殘殺政策也持續著,並沒有以談話取代槍砲的意願與空間。但是,即使處在極不對等的政治地位上,我們也明白,要朝向促進整個社會意識轉變的方向前進。長期以來,我們都設法凝聚緬甸人的社區意識、社區領導人,與公民教育的提倡;也很積極將年輕人帶入將社區動員、鼓勵緬甸青年參與社群改造運動,加入醫療健康服務的行列。我們正在以這種深耕的方式,讓緬甸人民累積自我的力量,從根本的層次試著為同胞帶來更多希望。 Dr. Cynthia: Still the military is very oppressing as well as their has been no positive development or negotiation process between the Burmese ethnics and the regime. But many people know the responsibilities, but there has been no opportunity to talk freely and to negotiate feely on the political stage. So we still have to encourage on different levels. But we have to start practicing respect for people as a citizen or as a community member. So we bring younger generations to actively participate in health care as well as in some social change. 記: 儘管緬甸現在的情勢依舊動盪,你仍舊懷抱著,希望有一天能夠和先生、小孩一同回去緬甸和家人團聚嗎? Speaker: And are you, in spite of the situation that you describe in Burma, still hoping that one day you can take your children back, go back with your husband and be reunited once again with your own family, your brothers and sisters? 辛: 當然是的。雖然我的母親也已經過世,我的孩子一直很想要見到他們的叔叔、姑姑和他們的孩子。我們生長於緬甸,許多的記憶都存在於家鄉,無論如何大家都很希望能夠回去,回到自己從前生長的地方看看。 Dr. Cynthia: Yes. Because also my mother passed away, but my children always want to see their cousins and their aunts and uncles. So we really want to stay in Burma because we grew up in Burma and we never forget about our child life. So everybody expect to go back and see. 記: 事隔了這麼多年,如果有一天你的雙腳真的再度又踏上了緬甸的土地,你覺得那時的你,會有怎麼樣的情緒呢? Speaker: And how do you think you’ll feel when your feet touch Burmese soil for the first time in so many years? 辛: 因為我們服務的村民與社區,很多是在緬甸邊境內,每當有機會過去,看到了一起努力奮鬥的同胞,總是令我心裡頭更為堅定;可是另一方面,我有時候又替他們的刻苦深深感到於心不忍。 Dr. Cynthia: Whenever we cross the border, because sometimes we also cross the border and there are some villagers or some communities living there, whenever we cross the border this makes us very strong as well it makes as very sad sometimes. 記: 辛西雅醫師,謝謝你接受BBC的採訪。很高興與你有一段愉快的談話時光。 Speaker: Cynthia Maung, thank you very much for talking to my, thank you very much for being my guest. 辛: 謝謝你。 Dr. Cynthia: Thank you. (完)
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