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難民女醫生辛西雅與梅道診所
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英國國家廣播公司(BBC) 2004年與辛西雅醫師的訪談實錄(1)

辛: 我來自的家庭並不富裕,因為家中的天主教信仰,我和我的家人們是相互關懷,照顧彼此的。印象中,我生活的周遭環境、社區有著許多許多的問題:很多人過著毫無醫療管道,生病沒有地方可看病的處境;孩子們也都沒有地方上學、沒有機會接受教育。 Dr. Cynthia: We were not in a wealthy family, but we saw a lot of parish and love and care each other. The same time the community around as we’ve always seen there are a lot of problems and people suffering from lack of access to health service or access to education. 記: 來自一個擁有家人溫暖,但卻貧窮的家庭,在這樣的環境下,對於要撫養孩子長大應該還是很不容易的。孩子時的你,有沒有放了學之後可以跟其他孩子們一起玩耍的機會呢? Speaker: So coming from a loving but ultimately a poor family, growing up wasn’t easy, did you have the opportunity to be a child an spend your time after school playing with other kids? 辛: 緬甸的小孩通常在放學後都得回到家裡幫忙工作,我也不例外。孩子們的工作通常都吃重的多,因為我們必須幫忙分擔家裡的生計,如取水等,所以玩樂的時間相對就少了。但我們還是能夠在日常生活中找到樂趣,我們那時開始注意到一些在街上工作的其他小孩,和一些被迫做著大人勞力工作的孩子。 Dr. Cynthia: After school, the children in Burma, including us we have to help the family, but I think the work we have to do is more than normal life, because children have to work for their families like carrying water and helping the families. So not much time for playing, but we still enjoy staying it our daily life. But we start learning about other child working in the street and about children who are not in the childhood life. 記: 與在街上拾荒工作的孩子們相比,你的童年應該是相對幸運的。但就我所知,你童年時期應該也有一些不性事件的發生,而對你造成了影響。你最大的哥哥出生時,因為用緬甸傳統方式接生,以竹片將臍帶割斷而造成感染過世。這是在你出生之前的事,你覺得這對你之後的生命產生了什麼影響呢? Speaker: So you are perhaps better off than some of the street children, but you did have your share of personal tragedy. Your eldest brother died before you were born. He had infection after his umbilical cord was cut in the traditional burmese way that is with a bamboo sliver. Did that affect you in later life? 辛: 我記得我們長大的過程中,家中每個小孩都想要有一個哥哥。一方面因為母親生的前四個孩子都是女孩, 而那時候的緬甸社會,女孩子是不太能夠在沒有兄長陪伴的情形下單獨出外去的。也因為我的哥哥是母親所生的第一個孩子,母親常常提及他,我們幾個孩子們也因此都希望有一個兄長可以陪伴我們。 Dr. Cynthia: Ummh! Because he is the eldest son of my mother, so my mother always remember him because children die. At the same time, when we grew up, we really want elder brothers, because the first four children are daughters, so like in burmese families we have not much freedom to go outside without father or elder brother, so we really wanted our brother to be with us. 記: 沒有一個帶著你和姊妹去想去地方的哥哥,我想對於你們幾個孩子的生活的確造成了許多的限制。對於你哥哥出乎意料外的夭折這件事,是影響你之後選擇進入醫學院就讀的因素之一嗎? Speaker: That must have been quite limiting for the fact that you and your sisters needed an elder brother wherever you wanted to go. Did his premature death also influence on your decision to go to medical school? 辛: 我的父親一直想要成為一位醫生,但是他身為長子,必須要負擔起家計,沒有時間去接受更多的教育。 他只有在高中畢業後在緬甸接受過短期健康醫療的訓練,他因此一直都希望他的孩子能夠成為醫生,或從事醫療照護的工作。 Dr. Cynthia: Actually my father wanted to be a medical doctor, but since he was the eldest son, he could not spend that much time in his life in education. So after he finished high school he had to go and learn in a shorter period health medical assistant in Burma, but he still wanted his children to be a medical doctor or health workers. 記: 所以,是因為你父親的願望而讓你想成為一位醫生的嗎? Speaker: Right, so it was your Dad’s decision that you became a medical doctor? 辛: 是的! Dr. Cynthia: Yes! 記: 可以談談你在Rangoon大學時的生活嗎?就我所知你曾經提過,你並不是一個很勤奮的學生,也不是很乖的學生,你那時很喜歡和朋友聚會去看電影,勝過好好在學校唸書。這是真的嗎? Speaker: Tell me about your time at Rangoon University. I read that actually you said you weren’t a very diligent student, you weren’t a very good student, because you preferred to go to the movies and chat and laugh with your friends. Is that true? 辛: 我大學時期有很大一部分的印象,是與同學們在教室相處的情形。我非常喜歡與朋友們相處的感覺,只是那時的生活條件相當的貧窮,學校位在郊區,並不是在市中心,通常一群同學如果想要出去的機會不多,不僅得擠在人很多的公車上,花上很多的時間通車,還得付上很昂貴的交通費。 Dr. Cynthia: The life on the University, in the classroom, I have very enjoyed with friends, but actually the living condition is very poor. Our University is not in the city but outside town. So usually if we would like to go outside it would take a long time, and you have to travel a long way and the busses are very crowded and we always have to struggle with the expenses for transportation as well as for the time. 記: 就某種意義來說,當時緬甸的大學風氣,應該是相當泛政治化的。你在當時有對於政治,或是從政感到興趣嗎? Speaker: Now, the University in Burma in Rangoon at that time certainly was very political in a sense, were you interested in politics at that time? 辛: 我的父親在從前克倫族為了爭取獨立建國而與緬族戰爭時,曾經加入軍隊參與抗爭。在我們小時候的家庭生活裡,其實從父親口中,就多少有接觸到有關政治的東西了。但母親總是要我與其他姊妹們停止討論一切有關政治的事情。在當時的大環境下,有許多的學生因為討論政治議題而被逮捕坐牢,每當周圍有人開始討論政治,母親總是要求我們不可以參與討論。在我們幾個小孩的眼裡,政治的事情也因此給了我們危險的印象。 另外一件事是我的弟弟在大學時代修讀文學寫作與政治思想,他因為寫了政治性的文章,被捕入獄將近一年的時間。自從那時候,母親便阻止也在大學就讀的我們,參與任何關於政治的活動。 Dr. Cynthia: Oh, we were learning politics since we were in our family, because my father used to be a Karen soldier during the Karen and Burmese fighting for independence, but my mother always stopped us to talk about politics. And my mother always stopped my sister, because sometimes in Burma there are some students arrested and in jail, so when the people started talking my mother always doesn’t allow us to talk about politics. So we learned something about politics just like dangerous. And then when my younger brother, that we were in University, he was in University also, he studied for literature, literature writing and political things, so he was arrested and in jail for nearly a year. So since that time my mother always try to stop whenever we involved in politics. 記: 你當時會害怕自己像你弟弟一樣被逮捕嗎? Speaker: Where you frightened to be arrested yourself like your brother? 辛: 會阿。我弟弟被捕時,我還是醫學院三年級的學生,母親一直替我們幾個小孩擔心。因為我弟弟的文章流傳的很快,到了其他的城市,也有其他人陸續寄一些民主運動相關的書籍來到家裡,我們那時為了不想讓母親與親友們過於擔憂,試著要把我們有的東西都銷毀。 Dr. Cynthia: Yes, when he was arrested I was third year medical student, so my mother also worried about other children as well, because his writing is sent to many other cities, so some of the books are also sent to us. So we tried to destroy everything whatever we have. Because, if we were found of we can be arrested and in jail. So my mother really worried about other children, and also we worried what is going to happen with other families as well. 記: 那可以請你描述一下,在1988年時由學生發起的反對軍政權統治,要求緬甸民主化的這個事件嗎? 當時你又是如何會涉入這些請願活動呢? Speaker: So tell my about the pro democracy demonstrations in 1988 against the military dictatorship. Why did you get involved in these demonstrations? 辛: 我自大學畢業後就在克倫族區的村裡進行醫療工作,因此我很清楚緬甸的醫療問題是非常嚴重的。我一開始是在醫院或是社區進行看診,眼見許多的民眾因為各種原因,無法負擔起就醫的費用,醫院裡的所有醫療資源及設備,也一直都很缺乏。許多在醫院工作的人,看到這樣的狀況都很沮喪,也沒有動力繼續工作。 Dr. Cynthia: So during this period I was in a Karen village working as a private medical professional, so that I learn about the health problems in Burma, soon after I finished my University. Because when I start working in the Hospital or in the community a lot of people could not access health service, because all the medicine are always on shortage in the hospital, so we start seeing some depressing things like the equipments and the medical supplies always on shortage and the people not really motivate to work. 記: 除了醫療系統的問題之外,你對於當時政治狀況的印象是什麼?你當時知道整個國家有許多的人,對於政府有強烈的不滿情緒嗎? Speaker: And apart from the health system, what about the political situation. What generally, what was your impression at that time? Did you know that there was a great feeling of outrage against the government across the country? 辛: 其實我當時並不知道。但是每天看到病患持續的增加,村民們即使再努力的工作,也沒辦法負擔醫療費用,很多人只能眼睜睜看著自己的親人死去,在那樣的情況下,我告訴我自己,只是身為一個醫療工作者,絕對是不夠的。 Dr. Cynthia: Not really. But every day I see patient, and I see the villagers who have to work hard to afford health services. The parents or the families can’t really provide enough care and they just let the patients die. So I just feel that I’m not much happy working as health worker in this situation. 記: 我們手邊現在有一份1988年九月當時的新聞報導,它生動敘述了當時緬甸社會所面臨的紛亂情況。 我們收聽看看。 Speaker: Now, Dr. Cynthia, we got a news report from September 1988 which gives a very vivid impression of the turmoil that Burma was going trough at that time. Lets have a listen to it “(錄音) 在緬甸掌握大權的軍事強人Saw Mung,組成了一個以軍事政權為首的新政府。緬甸街頭上的示威遊行仍舊持續。根據緬甸軍政權表示,在首都仰光又有62人因為當街暴動行搶,而被緬甸鎮壓軍隊射殺。許多駐緬外館人員卻表示,已經發生多起軍政府軍隊,對於和平示威群眾開槍進行掃射的事件。自從上星期天的軍事政變發生後,估計已經有數百民眾喪生…(示威者的叫囂聲)……即使是面對這樣持續不斷的大規模示威活動,緬甸軍政府今天所表示的態度卻更為強硬,宣布組成了幾乎全是軍政權要角為首的軍事執政內閣,這對於長久以來生活在軍政權統治陰影的緬甸人民而言,如今的結果極可能只會更深化人民的怨懟。緬甸軍政權新領導人如今不論是想要贏得社會大眾支持,或者是持續打擊其他反對勢力,恐怕都會是場硬仗。也已經有許多反對他的示威學生們,因受到迫害而逃往鄰國泰國,在緬甸混亂失序的情況,看起來似乎會持續下去。” News speaker (recorded) “The man who seized power in Burma, General Saw Mung, has formed a new government which is formed of members of the armed forces. On the streets demonstrations have continued. According to the Burmese authorities a further 62 people have been shot dead by the security forces after looting in the capital of Rangoon. Western diplomats say that in many cases troops have opened fire to peaceful demonstrations. Its now thought that several hundreds have died since the military coup last Sunday. …(Shouting of protesters) … Faced with demonstrations even by the disciplined ranks of the armed services Burma’s military leaders today responded to the pressure, but with apparently even a greater resolve than they’ve shown before, announcing a cabinet composed almost entirely of military men. A development that will prove deeply unpopular with a nation for so long tired of military rule. Burma’s new leader, Saw Maung faces a hard task either winning the public support or crushing its opposition. Already some of the students opposed to his rules have fled to neighboring Thailand. There, under guard, but at least out of the turmoil that seems sure to continue in Burma. 記: 辛西雅醫師,你應該就是當時這段報導提及的學生之一,因為當時政治的動盪導致你逃至泰國。我知道逃亡途中你們只有在夜間才可以行動,也得冒著感染瘧疾的危險穿越叢林。可以告訴我更多那時你逃往泰國的經過嗎? Speaker. Dr. Cynthia, you were one of the students mentioned in that report. You fled to Thailand because of the political unrest. Tell me about the journey to Thailand. I mean, I understand that you had to sleep during the day and at night hack your way trough malaria infested of the jungle. Tell me more about the journey? 辛: 就在軍政權九月確定掌權之後,許多村子裡的學生,保括我在內,都不知道到底會發生什麼事。也很擔憂我們到底還能繼續掙扎多久,當時已經嘗試聯絡在城裡的同伴,卻沒有辦法找到其他的人,我們路途上遇到的其他學生們,也說所有的人都已經逃到山區叢林躲避軍隊了,叫我們也快躲起來,因為軍事警察已經開始大規模逮捕群眾。同時村裡的人也開始逃亡,我們於是覺得無法繼續待在村裡,許多人已經跑到邊境與其他少數民族相互照應,我們於是決定也到邊境。整個逃亡過程中,我們無時無刻擔心有沒有被軍隊發現,或是被秘密警察跟蹤。我還記得我們在一天清晨四點時出發,逃往邊境,因為怕被發現,所以總是晚上行動,而白天就都躲在叢林。就這樣子走了四天之後,因為靠近了邊境,才偶爾在白天的時候趕路。 Dr. Cynthia: Soon after military seized the power in September, the students an me in the village are starting to get confused what will going to happen and how we can continue our struggle. And the we tried to contact our colleagues in the city , but when we went to the city we could not find other leaders. Also we met some students and they said everybody has gone to the jungle. And also you should hide because the police, the military started arresting and put in jail. So finally we feel that we couldn’t continue our struggle in the village, because all the parents are very worried and people started to disappear. So finally we feel that we could not continue our struggle here, but there were people going to the border and joining together with the ethnic people on the border. So we decide to come. But we were still afraid that if there is military or intelligence or people know about our journey than we can be arrested. So we left from the village at 4 o’clock in the morning, but soon after we found out that somewhere around is military. So we had to hide in the jungle. On daytime we hide in the jungle and usually we travel at night. But 4 days later the situation was better closer to the border, so we can start travel on daytime. 記: 那麼你那時離開前,與父母親和兄弟姊妹道別是怎麼樣的心情呢? Speaker: And what was it like saying good bye to your family or brothers and sisters? 辛: 當時我並沒有告訴父母我要逃走,因為我那時沒想過會在這裡一待就是這麼久,一開始大家都想只會在這裡待三個月,然後就可以回到緬甸了。 Dr. Cynthia: I never thought I will be here for this long. At first everybody thought we can be here for 3 months and so and then go back to Burma. So I didn’t tell to my parents. 記: 所以你對於到邊境到底有什麼樣的情況等著你,是一無所知的。你後來到了邊境,進了難民營,是嗎? 當時那裡頭的情況又是如何呢? Speaker: So you fled trough the Burmese jungle to Thailand to escape the military regime, you hadn’t told your parents where you were going, and you had no idea what would await you when you got to the border. Now, to begin with you were staying, I understand, in a refugee camp, weren’t you? What were the conditions like there? 辛: 當時邊境的情況相當糟糕,幾乎沒有食物與僻護的地方,即使是我們這一群學生中,有許多人也感染了瘧疾。我後來與一些克倫族的領導人聯絡上,他們已經開始對大批逃亡的同胞,做一些緊急救助的動作。 Dr. Cynthia: There were lots problems like shelter or food, and even among our group also, they were suffering from malaria. So during that time there was no medicine, so finally I kept contact with some Karen leaders who started organizing the humanitarian assistance and emergency medical relief. 記: 身為克倫族這個少數族群的一員,讓當時初抵泰國的你,立刻與其他克倫族們開始了緊急救援的工作。 剛流亡到泰國邊境時,你能夠與你的家人們保持聯絡嗎?或是很難能得知她們的消息? Speaker: I want to ask you about your work with the Karen, the Karen ethnic group, which you are a member of, and your work as a doctor in Thailand in a moment. Let me ask you before that: were you able to keep in touch with your family when you went in Thailand into exile, or was it difficult to hear news from them? 辛: 我在抵達泰國後不到一個月內,從同事口中知道我父親很擔心我,試著要來邊境這裡看我,但他在即將起程前生病了,並且不到一個月內,他就過世了,從那時之後,我未曾能再跟我的家人們有聯絡了。 Dr. Cynthia: Within a month I got information’s from my colleagues, and my father tried to come and see me, because my father also was worried a lot. But just before he come and see me, he is sick and than within a month he died. So since that I never got in touch with my family. 記: 所以因為你的流亡在外,讓你無法見到你父親的最後一面。 Speaker: So you never saw your father before he died. You were in exile. 辛: 對! Dr. Cynthia: Yes! 記: 那時你有想辦法與你的母親和弟妹們連絡,嘗試安撫她們的情緒嗎? Speaker: And were you able to send messages of comfort to your brothers and sisters and to your mother? 辛: 當時的情況讓我決定不要寄信,或著是藉著任何的通訊。因為我實在擔心這樣會給家裡帶來更多的麻煩,人們也很怕會因為這樣而被捕。 Dr. Cynthia: So we really were afraid to contact our family, because people come and go and some people also are afraid to bring letters. So we decided not to send letters or information’s. 記: 所以自從1988年之後,你都沒有再見過她們了嗎? Speaker: And, haven’t you seen them at all since you left in 1988? 辛: 對。自從那時,我沒再見過我的家人。 Dr. Cynthia: No. Since that time I never met with my family. 記: 你自一抵達泰國邊境,就開始了診療工作的進行。能帶我回到當時的情況,當時你是如何克服龐雜的問題,而讓診所開始作業的呢? Speaker: Now, you started the clinic once you arrived in Thailand. Take me back to the very beginnings of that. How did you cope, how did you get your clinic started? 辛: 我一開始是與當地的克倫族領導人一同工作,他們提供醫療援助給許多傷的很重,逃難到泰緬邊境的緬甸學生。我和其他自緬甸來的醫生們,也在那時後開始分工,有人留在山區叢林裡提供逃亡中的人民緊急的醫療援助,教導他們一些基礎急救知識。我當時在美索負責將有限的醫療資源進行分配、提供,並且把傷勢嚴重的傷者,轉送到鄰近的美索醫院。美索當地有一些教會團體和當地社區都很同情我們的處境,給了我們許多藥品、食物等資源,也提供我們需要的協助。在1989年1月,我因此就在美索的一個臨時僻護地區開始梅道診所的運作。 Dr. Cynthia: First I started working with the local Karen leader who was organising the medical assistance for the Burmese students who were seriously ill. So me and other Burmese doctors, during that time, we started working together, and some people stayed in the jungle to provide health workers training or provide health care service. At the same time I stay in Thailand to start organizing medical assistance as well as provide a referral service to Mae Sot Hospital. So there were some local Thai sympathizer like the church group or some local community. They started to support some medical or food supply for the students as well. So since 1989 in January I set up a health centre in Mae Sot. 記: 在最初診所的草創期,你必須要在飯鍋裡將那些手術用具予以消毒、清潔,那必定是非常困難的一件事,因為那剛開始你根本就沒有足夠的設備器材。我這麼說對嗎? Speaker: But I understand that in the initial period you had to sterilize surgical instruments in rice cookers. It must have been very hard, because you did not have much equipment in the early days. Is that right? 辛: 一開始時我們所有的,就是一張床、一些外科手術用具,和一些藥品。但我們還是開始了工作。因為這樣的情況與從前我在緬甸村落裡的時候,其實是非常相似的。無論是之前大家穿越叢林逃亡的日子,或是在緬甸生活的日子,跟當時美索的情況比較起來,想要運作一個診所,都是同樣困難的。但是我們也早習慣了在這樣的環境之下去做事。 Dr. Cynthia: Well, since I was in the rural area in Burma in the village, the situation we found was very busy like in Mae Sot. So in Mae Sot whatever we had was one bed, some surgical instruments, some medicines, small amount of medicines, we could start the work we are doing here. Because the same situation as in Burma, you see. On the way we passed trough the jungle, or when we were in Burma, to get medical supply and run the clinic was not easy. So we were already used to work in this situation.
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